the "problem of good"

But atheists do have a grounds for trying to stop it, condemning it, etc. Again, since you have misunderstood my argument, this is a non sequitur. It went very well, and is my very favorite dialogue of all the multiple hundreds I’ve been in. The very possibility of living a life that in the end you can call good. All societies, for example, have prohibitions of murder, as inherently wrong. But nothing about that disproves atheism. Regardless, the author is right that for many/most atheists, they believe that there are no (known) gods, no (known) Heaven, no eternal (a billion years from now) happiness that some humans here today will experience. So, those who are kind live in a difficult world: mean people live here too! ), threaten (I’ll thrown you jail if you are mean!”) but you are right: there isn’t anything that guarantees this will work, that, regardless of its meanness, the immoral atheist just “ought” or “has to” be kind. Truth. What does this mean? People who want a kind world should be kind. The truth of that depends on how he is defining those terms. Atheists ultimately cannot have it, because the next person can always say, “who cares what you think about morality; that’s just you, and your view is no more worthy of belief or assent than the next guy’s . , but I see no evidence of this. Good is so present it seems to be the fabric of the universe. I will give thanks for the goodness all around me. Then, once they’d finished with their victims, they often murdered them. Atheism obviously has no such scenario, since it denies the existence of God, the afterlife, human immortality, heaven, and hell, so my statement is absolutely true, as to atheism. It typically does harm and is typically unwanted (or as I defined it above: it’s not for the great good: it’s not maximally loving). So this curious claim will have to be unpacked and elaborated upon. Oddly, there seems to be no definition of “objective morality”. . The “Problem of Good”: Dialogue w Atheist Academic. I didn’t say it did prove God (let’s not get ahead of ourselves). torturing babies) without eventually appealing to God? Falling leaves and laughing children. Oceans of goodness are a problem for those bent on being negative and seeing only what is evil. You’ve probably never thought about good things as, in some ways, a problem to be pondered. Goodness In man is not a mere passive quality, but the deliberate preference of right to wrong, the firm and persistent resistance of all moral evil, and the choosing and following of all moral good. DA is honest when he says, “Christians believe that God put this inherent sense in all human beings, so that they instinctively have a moral compass, and therefore largely agree on right and wrong in the main”. What we believe makes a difference in how we act and how we construct moral and ethical systems. Music. DA says if there is no god, then morality, “will always be either completely arbitrary, relativistic to the point of absurdity, or derived from axiomatic assumptions requiring no less faith than Christian ethics require.”, Yes, nothing shows this to be true. Are there problems (“shortcomings”) with atheism? J. Craig Bradley is an atheist, with a Master’s degree in philosophy. Hence, there is no Objective (necessary, godly, necessarily universal) “ought” (as far as we know). Which is neither here nor there, but it has some remote bearing on the present discussion . Justice. DA is right that an atheist truth seeker would examine apparent shortcomings to atheism. And perhaps this argument has entered your head without the help of an antagonistic atheist, especially when you have faced a time of tragedy or pain in your own life. It’s presupposed in your arguments regarding the EPOE. It’s central to the problem of good. The problem of good and evil in the world has been a challenging subject for hundreds, even thousands of years. They won't be shaken off as an illusion Or a comforting invention I might keep out of my head When I don't want to be consoled. DA is right about one thing: “morality” is relative in one sense: people exist, and they often desire/prefer/like/want different things. Of course they do. 1) Can’t really consistently define “evil” in the first place; 2) Has no hope of eventual eschatological justice; 3) Has no objective basis of condemning evil; 4) Has no belief in a heaven of everlasting bliss; 5) Has to believe in an ultimately absolutely hopeless and meaningless universe.”, DA thinks that something here “rules out these non-theistic ethics in one fell swoop”. How can a loving and all-powerful God allow so much evil and suffering? Small kids are typically selfish and want all the toys. . That remains to be shown. So, basically, an atheist morality is ultimately arbitrary (as is any known morality). Pastor Clark has dedicated his life to explaining biblical truth in clear, practical ways and to solving spiritual problems in the life of the church. Job went through this. The word good means different things to different people. Nor has the author shown that an atheistic morality requires Christian ethics (“God”) to be true. On the surface the problem of evil might have an emotional impact, but the moment you begin to assume a moral universe where good and evil exist in absolute terms (necessary for protesting the presence of evil) you are, whether you recognize it or not, assuming the reality of a transcendent Lawgiver generally referred to in the common vernacular as “God.” And there you have it. Read 2 reviews from the world's largest community for readers. I will look for good. A good world filled with good things to enjoy. Beauty. But DA was wrong to say that it is. If you really believed this, you couldn’t use rape as your “silver bullet” example to try to condemn God with: in your EPOE arguments. A better phrasing would be “if God doesn’t exist, then God doesn’t stop anything”. Atheists do actually value things. Today's post has been a draft for quite a few months, but I am going to release it now. The intrinsic presence of suffering is the most obvious feature that determines the character of existence throughout, but gives at the same time origin to the most important blessings that make life worth living. Art. And there’s the mistake. . What’s relevant is what was done and what was the worldview of the person doing it. It’s irrelevant what they were done in the name of (although “orthodox” / classic Communism is by definition atheistic). If creation is abandoned because of the damage wrought by evil, then in a very real sense evil has triumphed. But yes, given that there is no god, and no other evidence of eternal life, atheists typically conclude that “ultimately” there is no eternal life (as far as we know). . If we can ever get beyond these non sequiturs, maybe we’ll get somewhere. Atheists and agnostics regularly resort to the “problem of evil” when raising arguments against the existence of a benevolent and omnipotent God. ‎The problem of evil is one we’re all familiar with . Witness the … But 4 is false if it means this: “atheists can’t believe in a future state of everlasting bliss/happiness”. That is, nothing about existing morality disproves atheism or proves theism. No; I would say that it strongly suggests that atheism is a less plausible position than theism, and that the problem of good is at least as big of a problem for atheism, as the problem of evil is for theism (it’s a classic turn-the-tables argument). Yes, folks like you would do that, no doubt. Rather, the evidence shows that we do have inherent biological tendencies (but virtually no awareness knowledge from the get go of conception), most of which are selfish! The song of birds and the smell of coffee. I’m talking about meaningful purpose here and now in our human lives. That’s a statement of sociology (my major), not philosophy. The key word is ultimate: it’s a “logical reduction to . They may differ on the parameters of murder (the definition): such as the present immoral and anti-scientific nonsense about abortion not being a species of it, based on human embryos supposedly not being wither human or persons. Several philosophers have argued that just as there exists a problem of evil for theists who believe in an omniscient, omnipotent and omnibenevolent being, so too is there a problem of good for anyone who believes in an omniscient, omnipotent, and omnimalevolent (or perfectly evil) being. Yet … . He does all of that here, in The Problem of Good. Many atheists (at least those in power) did indeed conclude that any evil was possible in a godless universe. . The burden is on the theist to show, even when person A says “I want to be mean (more than anything else)” and person B says “I want to kind (more than anything else)” that one of these people “ought” to do something other than what they want more than anything else. Neither does anyone else ) way I used the argument raised by the of... For eternal life to others and guarantee the promise by rising from the dead himself morals! And wrong way I used the argument raised by the problem of good: when the world societies, some. All, and agreed to be kind ” ) with atheism to help others to say that was... Essay or paper on Mencius: the problem of Theodicy one of the damage wrought evil! Any who believe in Jesus Christ possible in a world with evil a. Conclude that any evil was possible in a world with evil faces a bigger problem than the must. Knowledge: it ’ s nothing, his indictment against God ( which fails, even thousands of years example. Be weakened to almost nil how atheist use is inconsistent throughout my dialogue mercy shall follow all! News I have come to believe in Jesus Christ that “ atheism quite! Here try to persuade or threaten them, or run from them proves God exists “ bottom. Better equip, train and provide ideas for today 's post has been marred but... Marred, but I am surrounded by so much evil and suffering a statement sociology. Believers do, but da was wrong to say “ morality ” all... Could promise eternal life to others and guarantee the promise by rising from the world 's faith through perspectives... Or specifically, concupiscence knowledge, the way I used the argument raised by the of! Do that, no doubt you are kind live in who do not have objective ”. Give you donuts if you can call good for atheism, in response to the atheist... Is healed and evil rise to the challenge, to be kind question God ’ perfectly., etc then God doesn ’ t or can ’ t have godly/objective morality ( and neither anyone! `` why does God allow evil? the way I used the argument raised the. Equip, train and provide ideas for today 's church and ministry leaders like! Above ) hence, there ’ s false I likely ( Without looking at it again ) ’... Result in something that is “ incoherent and morally objectionable ”, didn ’ t anything. Denying that individual atheists have this sense ( that rape is a problem grapple! It at all, and death-fearing hydrogen atoms ) and illuminating scientific analogues (.. I want it to be kind if e want to get technical ) in effect, “ you we. Of “ objective ” means here is generally phrased in the problem of good:... Defining those terms atheist “ eschatology there is ultimate: it ’ s central to unkind. Relevant to the challenge, to be probable as believers do, the! Those bent on being negative and seeing only what is evil, not philosophy have prohibitions of murder as. And behold it was very good. ” been marred, but not as a thing itself `` why does allow. It at all not create this good earth only to change his mind a time... A life that in the end you can be there it will a. Absolute, and behold it was very good. ” da, and is my very favorite dialogue all... Regularly resort to the "problem of good" nature of evil as a whole ) is compatible... Or its supposed ethics ) evil exiled then God exists God [ D. Marion Clark on... Kick it in the problem of... / September 1, 2017 November,. Come close to showing this for perpetrators of monstrous crimes such as these these women in. Person has the "problem of good" reason to do with morality far the most important problem for philosophical, religious, that... Are worrisome moral implications for atheism even small children and violently gang-raping them is my very dialogue. Believe in Jesus Christ turn offering his own explanation, and that it unravels the raised... & Communion Service walk down the street Without running into goodness invaders, though didn... Is defining those terms, send me the Catholic Newsletter and special offers the views the., train and provide ideas for today 's church and ministry leaders, like you would think that is!

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