If done according to manufacturers instructions, it will seal nicely. Actually if you watch any pros work (not on crappy shows) on TV you will see them use backer board 99% of the time. I always use cement board behind tile for two reasons, better adhesion, and less worry about expansion and contraction (which leads to cracked grout lines). It only takes a minute to sign up. But that doesn't address your question, so it's just a comment, not an answer as such. The waterproof membrane isn't a substitute for the substrate. Now you're ready to tile. If not, you should. Ensures a fully water-tight seal preventing leaks and mold growth. That shouldn't be a real-life problem unless you do something. Just wondering how effective is the tile on kerdi membrane vs the traditional cement backboard where tiles are glued directly to the drywall? I’m assuming he’s planning to use Kerdi over the cement board too. Additional KERDI-BOARD and/or KERDI-BAND may be required for applications that include a ceiling, or if covering longer or taller walls. The caulking adhesive they use has eliminated all the Kerdi band, inside corners, outsides, corners, Kerdi … It can be plastic sheeting or roofing felt behind the cement board, a liquid-applied membrane (like RedGard), or a surface-applied membrane (like Kerdi). To subscribe to this RSS feed, copy and paste this URL into your RSS reader. 1/2" inch Kerdi board is $3.60 sq. KERDI will cost more up front. We waterproof the outside the hardiboard in 99% of the install with something like redgard. Wish I bought the kerdi … site design / logo © 2021 Stack Exchange Inc; user contributions licensed under cc by-sa. Why would a HR still ask when I can start work though I have already stated in my resume? Are red dwarfs really 30-100 times our Sun's density? Cement board and grout are not water proof, if there's Kerdi no moisture is ever going to be able to get behind it. How would small humans adapt their architecture to survive harsh weather and predation? So has anybody used KIRDI-BOARD? Installation is simpler and cleaner than cement board. There are other brand names of polystyrene backerboard, as well as other materials to choose from, including cement backerboard. For all the substrates listed in this Handbook (e.g., gypsum board, cement backerboard, etc. I believe the cement board is sucking up to much moisture, and have read that I could paint latex primer over the cement board to seal it. As for cost - my personal opinion is that small jobs are precisely the place to spend the extra money (assuming the quality is better for what you need). I think it is engrained in me to do that so I forget to mention it. A Math Riddle: But the math does not add up. You won't see Kedri-Board system i Home Depot or Lowes because most of the sales do not know how to install it..But the big upside to the Kedri-Board system is the weight. Redgard is a similar product. If the sun disappeared, could some planets form a new orbital system? https://www.rona.ca/en/kerdi-polystyrene-foam-backer-board-32055007 board, cement backerboard, etc.) As a bit of history: The Kerdi membrane (from Schluter Systems) is one of (the?) It doesn't matter but you absolutely need to use both a substrate and a waterproofing membrane. The 4 mil thickness of Kerdi-Band … original products in this space. It … I found so many conflicting answers for this but I finally settled on mounting the cement board 1/4" above the flange and then sealing the gap with kerdi band and kerdi fix. Mostly, the biggest advantages are found in weight and longevity of the material. INSTALLATION TIPS • Cut and mark all waterproofing components prior to mixing thin-set mortar. What advantages/disadvantages does it have? craft paper or plastic is great if the inspector wants it but it is (should be) doing nothing for a tub surround that has HB/redgard/thinset/tile. I haven't used KIRDI-BOARD itself, but I have used similar products. I have used a Kerdi-board competitor, Wedi, for a shower and found it very easy to work with. Backerboard plus a waterproofing membrane like Redgard is all that is needed for tub surrounds with thinset then tile. In this example, Steve installed a sliver of KERDI-BOARD directly next to the tub. KERDI-board is better than cement board because it’s lighter, easier to work with, waterproof, and can be installed much quicker. Kerdi-Band 7-1/4 in. It costs more but it;s worth it for the ease of install IMO. Kerdi-Board is made from an extruded polystyrene foam panel, with a special reinforcement material on both sides and fleece webbing for effective anchoring in thinset mortar. The biggest disadvantage will be the cost. It's pretty strong stuff (particularly for a kitchen backsplash, which shouldn't bear much (any?) All shower/tub areas should have concrete board ( I prefer hardiboard). However if installed on drywall it is only protecting one side. A.Sean Gerolimatos, technical services manager for Schluter Systems, responds: With a few exceptions, unmodified thinset mortar is required for setting ceramic and stone tile over Kerdi membranes (800/472-4588, www.schluter.com ), as well as for bonding overlapped seams and connections to Kerdi drains. ft. x 96 = $201 + $96 Kerdi-Band = $30 + $201 + $96 = $327 This means you pay $114 for a better result Given your shower overall cost is around $2000 this is a good investment.. Position KERDI-BOARD on the framing and press a washer into the board every 12 inches up the stud location. Cement board itself is not waterproof and you must install or paint a waterproof membrane over it. And once you use the KERDI-BAND on all the joints and where you put your screws in, it's 100% watertight already. The back side of the drywall fails and it is just as bad or worse than if it had an issue on the tile side. To learn more, see our tips on writing great answers. Not everyone knows how to do mud and lathe it's so old school plus it wears you out, ive been a setter for 27 yrs and I have yet to go back to one of my showers I installed using perma base or durock, with a liner, i have started using waterproofing such as redguard or aqua-defense. One of the company says they are going to apply kerdi membrane on the drywall, then tiles onto the kerdi membrane, and as such as cement backboard would not be required. For sure, they had a tile setter design this, they must have. http://www.schluter.com/schluter-us/en_US/Shower-System/KERDI-SHOWER-KIT/Schluter%C2%AE-KERDI-SHOWER-KIT/p/KERDI_SHOWER-KIT, Visual design changes to the review queues, Opt-in alpha test for a new Stacks editor. Important to overlap seams in a shingle method. Kerdi-Board is a multifunctional tile substrate and building panel that can be used for creating bonded waterproofing assemblies with tile coverings. Nuxt.js Cannot find module '@babel/preset-env/lib/utils'. Its about 9 months since the completion of my bathroom. Why has Pakistan never faced the wrath of the USA similar to other countries in the region, especially Iran? Since KERDI is impervious, it does not deprive the mortar of its moisture. Cut a section of Kerdi off the roll and dry fit it on the hardie. Kerdi really offers very little advantage over hardiboard plus membrane. I'm redoing the tile back splash in my kitchen and was planning on using cement board behind the tile, but now I'm not so sure. site design / logo © 2021 Stack Exchange Inc; user contributions licensed under cc by-sa. ), Schluter SET™, ALL-SET™, FAST-SET™ or an unmodified thin-set mortar is recommended. Mike Holmes uses backer on his show. The type of bonding mortar used to apply KERDI must be suitable for the substrate and must penetrate and engage the membrane fleece. What precautions should I take installing tile on a backerboard in an area surrounded by cement? Whether or not you need a Kerdi membrane is a factor of use. Source: I rebuilt my shower with a kerdi niche last summer. on walls, creating a fully waterproof and vapor-tight enclosure. he saw a video showing it being submerged in water, and the surface layer wicking it up. • KERDI can be installed over regular drywall, greenboard, or cement board. Which great mathematicians had great political commitments? @EAMann You have any sources on synthetic foam lasting longer than traditional concrete? First Kerdi can be installed on drywall or cement board. The Schluter Kerdi drain pan will work with the cement board walls. You are telling someone "to have" an artistry that not only takes art skills, knowing how to mix mortar for different situations, and a good amount of practice. I believe using 1/2" Kerdi-Board is much better than Kerdi Membrane over 1/2" Drywall, It’s probably more water proof (moisture will not deteriorate Kerdi-Board), Its only about 30% more in cost (about $440 for at large 4 foot time 8 foot shower –OR– (do not mix these products, voids warranty) Install cement board, apply the KERDI membrane, patch any seams with KERDI-BAND and wait for it to dry for 24 hours. I came across an interesting product the other day, and thought it might be perfect for an upcoming project. I can lift 2 of these boards where I was struggling with one cement board. Is it legal to carry a child around in a “close to you” child carrier? How do cement boards and Kerdi boards for wall tile compare? It is a topical waterproofing layer that is put over the substrate to keep water from getting to the wood frame and nails. You absolutely need to include some sort of substrate (cement board, green board, regular drywall) with the Schluter-Kerdi waterproofing kit. First Kerdi can be installed on drywall or cement board. My plan is: 1 – mesh tape all around the niche (external and internal), 2 – use modified thin set to fill gaps and wait to be dry, 3 – Use Mapei waterproof liquid membrane and embed kerdi-band in the liquid on seams (already bought the kerdi-band) 4- Waterproof the entire shower 5 – Tiling. First Kerdi can be installed on drywall or cement board. It only takes a minute to sign up. A time argument. Anyone can enjoy the benefits of a cement board shower system if you follow these 3 easy steps. However, the answer you provided above suggests that the OP could omit a waterproof membrane, that I. Carl Pavlovic (Construction Manager): Schluter's thought of everything. Everything came in a box and you could be done in less than a day. Welcome to the site. My understanding is that Schluter-Kerdi, being a sheet topical membrane, recommends just going with regular drywall instead of cement board but you can certainly use cement board as the substrate. #2 - Your suggestion has plenty of merit though. Should I use Kerdi membrane or cement backerboard? We don't expect people to master this and in fact I know maybe two guys in my area (live in big city) that could do this. yup, Kerdi over cement board (my first choice) or drywall, but not Kerdi directly over plywood. I have to redo my tub surround due to moisture leaks and failing grout. Kerdi can even be installed over drywall. The felt allows the soft plastic in the middle to create a bond to the cement board and tile without any penetrations. @DMoore- OK, I agree that with redguard it would be redundant. Stack Exchange network consists of 176 Q&A communities including Stack Overflow, the largest, most trusted online community for developers to learn, share their knowledge, and build their careers. Mark the coverage of the Kerdi on the hardieboard. How can I enlarge an opening in wall tile for an electrical box? I'm still interested in hearing if anybody has used this stuff, to find out if it's easier/faster to work with. As a contractor, I have been using Kerdi since it came out. Thanks for contributing an answer to Home Improvement Stack Exchange! Out of curiosity, why are any of you suggesting backerboard at all? Yes, it will work. When taping cement board do I need to tape at the walls? Given your shower overall cost is around $2000 this is a good investment.. There is a product called Kerdiboard you might want to look into. How should I transition between cement board floor and alcove tub? Is there a way to prevent my Mac from sleeping during a file copy? Why are some snaps fast, and others so slow? Making statements based on opinion; back them up with references or personal experience. It installs with screws, then you tape the joints & screw holes and install your tile. The KERDI-BOARD sits nice and flush with the studs. that's home depot homeowner installation method. Only use Schluter screws and washers to attach KERDI-BOARD to the studs. Furthermore, the maximum on-center spacing … I pretty much left up my moisture barrier but took down the half way job of cement board. making a corner sounded similar to the process for drywall, only using Kerdi-band and thin-set in place of tape and mud. In normal residential use I wouldn't worry about it. How To Recover End-To-End Encrypted Data After Losing Private Key? Even the tiling subs have moved away from mortar walls because of the labor cost and lack of craftsmen in the industry. What precautions should I take installing tile on a backerboard in an area surrounded by cement? His impressions of Kerdi-board: when doing a simple backsplash for a kitchen you would not need to use a backerboard for a project like that.. you usually use cement or Kerdi for a location that is going to have lots of moisture or get wet regularly.. and unless you plan to bath in the kitchen, you can apply your tile directly to the wall as it is. Why are non-folding tyres still manufactured? I know these are a little more expensive than cement board and dry pack but they are easier to install and waterproof. #4 You could be adding a good 1000 pounds to your install too. All of these backerboard options have advantages and disadvantages. rev 2021.2.22.38628, The best answers are voted up and rise to the top, Home Improvement Stack Exchange works best with JavaScript enabled, Start here for a quick overview of the site, Detailed answers to any questions you might have, Discuss the workings and policies of this site, Learn more about Stack Overflow the company, Learn more about hiring developers or posting ads with us, Cementboard sufficient to a tub surround is dirt cheap .vs. First Kerdi can be installed on drywall or cement board. We tried soaking the cement board and applying the kerdi in small sections. Some quick Google-ing turned up about $10/sheet for 5'x3'x1/2" cement boards. We tried adding water to the thinset, we tried using a larger notch trowel, but nothing seems to make the Kerdi stick. ft. of wall space, which is a big shower), 1/2" inch Kerdi board is $3.60 sq. In my. Since you say he’s experienced, I’m assuming you do not fully understand his plan. the cost of the tile job. I always install it over cement board or backerboard, never over drywall, even blueboard or the mold resistant greenboard. In some very nontechnical terms, Schluter KERDI is basically a pliable sheet of plastic with felt on both sides. How to handle accidental embarrassment of colleague due to recognition of great work? A mortar wall is better and can be customized easier. Hi David. Read more. • Wipe down the floor and wall with a damp sponge to remove any dust. Properly waterproofing a shower area sharing a living room wall, Can I use cement accelerator to decrease setup time of modified thinset. How to draw a “halftone” spiral made of circles in LaTeX? @JimmyFix-it - You are right. Being able to cut it with a utility knife sounds like it could save some time, but as I've never handled it I wonder how ridged/durable it is. Asking for help, clarification, or responding to other answers. The site is called floorelf.com. Help me understand what I'm doing - Coming up with a theory of the fabric of the universe. How to address an email to an academic office where many people reply from the same email address? All shower/tub areas should have concrete board (I prefer hardiboard). Schluter responded with the Kerdi board. The back side of the drywall fails and it is just as bad or worse than if it had an issue on the tile side. The Kerdi/Daltile TS underlayments do have some valid applications such as in steam shower installations where a bullet proof vapor barrier is required. The Kerdi is essentially replacing the backerboard. the manufacturer recommends unmodified thin-set, which might an issue for certain types of tile. Mount the KERDI-BOARD to the studs just like you did with the main wall. what tile types were you thinking would be a problem for unmodified? 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