In winter look out for exposed paths and rocks where they can warm up. Among other topics we talked extensively about using tourniquets, then we had a hands-on demonstration of several brands of tourniquets and discussed the pros and cons of each, how they are carried and deployed, and how they have improved with each "generation" of development. 7.) We report a case of snake bite complicated by tourniquet induced ischaemic damage and rhabdomyolysis causing acute renal failure. Do not attempt to suck the venom out by mouth. You're not going to die 10 minutes after getting bit, but don't try to finish your run lol. In the past 12 months I've seen about 5 snakes on the trails, including some rattle snakes. Panicking will pick up your heart rate spreading the venom to your body much quicker. Don't listen to people who say using a tourniquet = losing a limb. TQs are for limbs only, and you should avoid the joints. 1 The sequence of clinical events though simulates delayed envenomation of cobra bite; important differences are bleeding from the puncture wounds, muscle spasms and no evidence of flaccidity. DON'T risk another bite by trying to capture or kill the snake. I fully agree that avoiding snake bites is the best thing to do. I've seen tons of snakes but never had one strike at me. Pay attention to the color markings, the rattle (or lack thereof) and the shape of the head. I ended up choosing the SWAT-T. CORNISH: That's one of the listeners who wrote us about this, Tony Daly-Crews of Buckeye, Ariz. • Get medical help. Better avoid getting bit then eh!?! I always carry a phone with me in case of an emergency, however the reception in the Santa Monica and San Gabriel Mountains is pretty bad. Press question mark to learn the rest of the keyboard shortcuts. Austere medicine teachers put together this beginner's guide to tourniquets. The standard snakebite scene in many movies shows the victim applying a tourniquet to the limb and then cutting the wound and sucking out the venom. pmid:9655642 . With a coral snake bite, the affected area should remain below heart level to slow the spread of its more potent venom. https://cms.bleedingcontrol.org/class/search. With the medicine we have today you should be fine as long as you can make it to a place with cell signal and get an paramedic. Similar local signs can be seen in viperine bites. I mean, maybe if the limb is already severed but like a cut artery or something just reach right in there and pinch. Request PDF | The Failures of Ethnobotany and Phytomedicine in Delivering Novel Treatments for Snakebite Envenomation | Snakebite envenomation (SBE) is a high-priority, neglected tropical disease. If you get bitten, there's not much you can do yourself other than just immobilize the wound (brace it with your shirt and two sturdy sticks) and be sure to keep it below the heart i.e. Press J to jump to the feed. The best thing to do if you get but by a snake is to NOT panic, and try to write down details or take a photo of the snake. Unless you're very young, very old, or have some sort of other complication, you'll likely have an incredibly shitty and painful time and come out fine. New comments cannot be posted and votes cannot be cast. Only 0.4% of non-professional cases end up with amputation. There might be special circumstances with extremely dangerous snakes), It causes the venom to fester in the limb and causes extensive damage, Also venom extractors do not have any evidence to back up that they work at all, Do not try to catch the snake to identify it in North America all except one snake species require the exact same anti venom. The first symptom of a pit viper bite is usually pain, followed by redness and swelling within 20 to 30 minutes. That sucks that your instructer told wrong things. My mum's been bitten by a snake. Just be safe, and remember they're more afraid of you than you are of them -- most animals won't go out of their way to attack someone unless they feel very threatened. 6.) Absolutely. I wonder how it would go down if a bitten person had to backpack 20 miles back to the car to get any help.. Cover the bite with a clean, dry dressing. Do not raise the area of the bite above the victim’s heart. Snakes are massive scaredey cats and the biggest cowards even if you stand on them I've found. Some FAQ: Tourniquets are not taught as a last resort anymore. Snakes can't hear you, but they can feel you, and the pounding of your feet might be enough to scare it off the trail if it's sunning. I have heard mixed reviews about Snake Bite Kits and heard that the Snake Bite Poison Line tells you NOT to use these kits because it can do more harm that good. How can you tell if it’s a “dry bite”? TQs don't solve the problem, they just buy you time. It will help with identifying it. Do not give the person any medications unless directed by a doctor. They cover what you'd learn in a local class and bust some of the sticky myths. Thanks all! Author information: (1)Department of Clinical Sciences, University of Papua New Guinea. How do I assess a snake bite patient and tell a difference between the various types of venom? If you do get bit, you need to get out of there as fast as possible while keeping your heart rate low. Insurance for tough times. Between the classes I've taken in the last year and the shooting last year on Oct. 1, it's becoming harder and harder to justify leaving the house for any reason without a TQ on my belt. Here's what I've always been told by rangers and trail runners alike: If you're alone, the best practice is to calmly walk to a place where you can get a ride to a hospital while keeping the bitten area below your the level of your heart (it'd probably be your leg, so no worries there, eh?). Great post! I'll update wording to clarify. Tunneler bite can be just as bad. Make sure you're not running with headphones so you can hear if they rattle at you. Thanks for posting, lots of great info. Getting bitten by a snake, whether your running or hiking or whatever, can be deadly -- especially if you're by yourself and miles from road/civilization. The patient was hemodynamically stable, but the entirety of the right leg distal to the tourniquet was discolored. As long as you don't step on them, you shouldn't have an issue. NEVER handle a venomous snake, not even a dead one or its decapitated head. I asked an EMT at my work the same question that you're asking here, and he said the same thing about snake-bite kits. View Article PubMed/NCBI Google Scholar 23. I've been rattled at up in the Sespe Wilderness, but never down in the Santa Monicas or San Gabriels, though I have seen a few California King Snakes and Racers. The bite was so severe that Edwards was kept at Vanderbilt University Medical Center until Monday. It's a diminishable skill that most people get wrong at first (it's not hard, just awkward), so take 10 minutes and practice every year or so. I highly recommend NAR for first aid stuff, I highly recommend NAR for first aid stuff. Its sometimes tricky when running fast downhill, but you mentioned several good points to keep in mind. I'm always trying to advocate the use of TQs, I'm pretty active in the firearms community, and it's starting to catch on, but for a long time, it wasn't "cool" to post a TQ in your Instagram EDC flex. He found the bitemarks and quickly fastened a tourniquet two inches above the wound, using a friend’s belt. Some of my runs are with friends, others are solo, sometimes miles away from any road or home. It is a myth that arteries retract a large distance and that you should use a tq on a snake bite. While just two snake bite deaths were reported in the state since 2010, one in 2013 and one in 2015, around a fourth of those who sought assistance through the GPCC needed the antidote. Rattle snakes will let you know. There's a big drop off in effectiveness between a proper TQ and one you make yourself with improvised materials. You receive a patient with a Tourniquet already applied by a non-medic or junior medic… what now? Thank you for posting this. It's a long read, but contains some good advice from a herpetologist. Mostly just keep your eyes open and be careful. Their gear is the highest quality. That was the best Amazon review I've ever read. Here’s what you should do instead. DON'T use old first aid remedies: no tourniquet, no ice, no electric shocks, no cutting the wound and sucking out the venom. Age below 5 years, activity at/after the bite (playing/walking), no tourniquet, a longer bite to ASV time, presence of fang marks, neurotoxic envenomation and need for additional ASV dose were independent predictors of poor outcome in pediatric snakebite envenomation. He knows what he's talking about. Tourniquet injury in a Papuan snakebite victim. Learning and sharing information to aid in emergency preparedness as it relates to disasters both natural and man-made. Amaral CF, Campolina D, Dias MB, Bueno CM, Rezende NA. I know a lot of the trails in LA can be spotty with cell sevice, but if you're way out on a trail, it wouldn't be a bad idea to try getting through to 911. Same thing with running to get help. The chances of you getting a tourniquet on before this has happened is minuscule. Don't listen to people who say using a tourniquet = losing a limb. For the most part, if you aren't elderly, very young, or have a compromised immune system, you have an hour or two to get to a hospital. Not that I've ever screamed like a little girl jumping over them before... Tl;dr If you are going into nature use the buddy system and pay attention because you are in a lot of trouble if you get bit by a poisonous snake. I appreciate everyone's responses here. March 31st is Stop the Bleed Day, many fire dept. Wash the bite with soap and water. The best thing to do if you get but by a snake is to NOT panic, and try to write down details or take a photo of the snake. Rattlesnake Bite— Tourniquet or Not? Additionally, he mentioned that a tourniquet to isolate the venom may be a bad idea, because some say it concentrates the venom into one area of the body and do massive damage, instead of diluting it throughout the body. I recently got a CAT Gen 7 from North American Rescue with the storage case/pouch still need to learn to use it properly but hot damn just holding the CAT you can tell it's made to last. I'll be in an 18 hour adventure race in Florida this August, and I've literally had the same thought, over and over. Bringing a Sharpie and taking notes definitely get me thinking. Though those Gartner Snakes babies pop out of no where and scare the crap out of you. Also, don’t try to let the venom “bleed out” by cutting marks on the bite with a blade. It's also a good idea to brush up on the poisonous snakes in your region. Try and generally stay calmish and get back to your car to get to the hospital. and private medical organizations offer free bleeding control classes, I'm not sure if it's okay to post links here, but you can find classes near you at https://cms.bleedingcontrol.org/class/search or https://www.stopthebleedday.org I'd highly recommend it to anyone who wants to be better prepared. Yesterday, as required for work, I took a six-hour AED/CPR/first aid class from the American Red Cross. In Australia all our snakes use the lymphatic system to kill you so as long as you use compression bandages and stay put you'll be fine. There are no long term effects, and they're not painful. 5.) • Immobilize the bitten area and keep it lower than the heart. A snake's reflexes can still cause the snake to strike up to an hour after it has died.• If you have an encounter with a snake, give it the right-of-way. Arteries don't retract a huge distance when cut. An admin of a prepper FB group said this morning: "using a tourniquet guarantees amputation!" Only 0.4% of non-professional cases end up with amputation. We hear from medical experts the RATs should be avoided due to the design. Sounds like calling the park head quarters, park ranger or 911 would be the best thing to do if you're alone on a remote trail. Does anyone here have experience with snake bites? The tourniquet should go around the injured limb, approximately 2 or 3 inches above the bleeding site. I wouldn't trust my life to a snake bite kit. 8.) do not elevate it. Sometimes venom injection from the bite may occur. Also, this might be hard in the moment, but the more information you have on the type of snake the easier it's going to be for doctors to treat it, so try and get a good glimpse of whatever bit you. After a while there was a dull ache around the bite, but that was probably around an hour after she was bitten. Try using your off hand, pretend a limb is trapped, etc. Vomiting, blurred vision, tingling of the limbs, and sweating may result. Ive joined Reddit a few weeks ago, stoked to read all the different topics. Arteries don't retract a huge distance when cut. Snake bites: Contrary to what you see in movies, tourniquets should NOT be used on snake bites. TL;DR: have a way out and really good medical insurance or don't get bit. If I'm going out hiking or running I always make sure I have a way to get help. I guess you're more likely to infect yourself or make it worse, and they aren't great at getting venom out. Wow didn't realize it was that expensive, that's crazy!! Have you also noticed the number of range masters / RSOs carrying TQs? That being said, snake bite kits are silly and do not work. That was way more informative than I was expecting an amazon review to be! Abstract & Commentary Synopsis: Tourniquets are not beneficial and should not be used in the initial management of rattlesnake bites. Symptoms vary according to the size and species of snake. • If a victim is unable to reach medical care within 30 minutes, a bandage, wrapped two to four inches above the bite, may help slow venom. Don't run, and don't use those snake bite kits. The instructor talked about tourniquets for maybe one minute, and about half of what he said was incorrect. Do not use a tourniquet. I'm glad it's changing. Trevett AJ(1), Nwokolo N, Watters DA, Lagani W, Vince JD. You should instead call 911, remove any tight clothing or jewelry, and move as little as possible. That's probably not the case for your snakes. Seek medical attention if you are not experienced with identifying snakes. Do not cut into the snake bite, that is,do not make incision on the body site of the bite. Or if I would even go running... New comments cannot be posted and votes cannot be cast, Press J to jump to the feed. It will help with identifying it. Last first aid course I took about 3 years ago they recommended not using them because of the risk of losing the limb from cutting off the blood supply and to just apply direct pressure to the wound instead and wait for emergency response. That being said, snake bite kits are silly and do not work. Some snake bites are “dry bites” with no venom injection, so they may be survivable without professional treatment. I am waiting until after Christmas to order mine at this point. There are several issues with tourniquets for snake bite: It's likely too late anyway The venom will spread rapidly though your system (as Weda says, the lymphatic system is the main carrier, not blood). A tourniquet was in place just below the right knee. The species of snake was unknown. Either a friend or a phone. This may result in redness, swelling, and severe pain at the area, which may take up to an hour to appear. Do NOT do any of the following: Do not pick up the snake or try to trap it. Also, I recommend anyone regularly running in an area with wildlife should familiarize themselves with the animals they could possibly encounter. Just out of curiosity where did you find out about the NAR first aid courses? The advice here is great, but as we know as trail runners in LA, cell service can often be non-existent on our trails. Being educated will help you tremendously. How important is it to identify the snake? I learned a lot from it, hope you do too. Good read. Research and modern products have changed the guidance around when you should use a tourniquet so the bar is much lower. The Red Cross first aid advice for snake bites is: • Wash the bite with soap and water. Mike Edwards, 46, was bitten by a timber rattlesnake Saturday while working on his Rockvale farm. Wrap Around Limb. I wear a CAT in a NAR rigid TQ holder every day and I plan on buying a couple more of the holders so I don't have to take it off of my duty belt for casual wear. Press question mark to learn the rest of the keyboard shortcuts, http://www.amazon.com/review/RSQET9EMO7CL3/ref=cm_cr_pr_viewpnt#RSQET9EMO7CL3. There's a big drop off in effectiveness between a proper TQ and one you make yourself with improvised materials. Tourniquet: Bad advice for a snake bite Share this: Click to share on Facebook (Opens in new window) Click to share on Reddit (Opens in new window) Click to … I guess the jury is still out on that one though? Both thin your blood, which is also what the snake venom does. All are pretty shitty options compared to running without snakes, but that's life. Not sure. Which did you prefer? My tribe, Twisted Hairs, had a better way than Antivenom, if you act fast. Butt yeah, a isreal bandage is also a very usefull thing to know. Snake species. A couple of months ago I took a six-hour traumatic bleeding control class from North American Rescue. Pee on it and then get yourself a ride to the hospital. Take a few minutes while relaxing on the couch today and learn a valuable new skill. I live in Arizona and frequent desert trails. The rule of "fuuuuuuck that's a lot of blood". If you can take a picture or describe the snake, that's good but not essential. If you have a phone call for medical attention and stay put -- if you have to move a little bit get a big stick to use as a crutch and stay off it. If neurotoxic venom has been injected, and you are certain no medical care or antivenom is available, there is very little that can be done. At least now I know to immobilize the wound, keep it below the heart and get to a hospital asap. What if it cannot be found? I think I'm way more likely to use it on someone else though. If you're running with friends and one of you gets bit, carry or support the victim so they can immobilize the affected area while making it back to your car/your house/etc. I'd be dead in minutes from the adrenaline pumping the venom straight to my heart. As someone from Western Europe I am not quite sure how I'd feel about running while knowing there are snakes around me. If the player character possesses a tourniquet when he/she becomes poisoned by an animal, the tourniquet will be automatically applied to counter the poison. I checked their site but didn't see anything and I'd be keen to take some more in-depth courses. /facepalm. If you're going to be in a situation where you are alone and far away from anything, do carry a phone in case of emergency. Tourniquet ineffectiveness to reduce the severity of envenoming after Crotalus durissus snake bite in Belo Horizonte, Minas Gerais, Brazil. I was lucky enough to play with a rats a cat a softw and swat about a month ago as well which helped me make up my mind on which one i wanted to buy. I don't have a lot of experience with this subject, but one key factor that you'll need to remember is to STAY CALM and keep your heart rate down. She didn't notice herself get bitten, she saw the bite on herself sometime after. At that point, you can try to keep calm and walk it out to civilization/cell service, buy a GPS emergency transceiver and be ready to push the SOS button, hope you didn't get envenomated, or just be diligent when running single-track solo. Cookies help us deliver our Services. Toxicon 1998;36: 805–808. I would say the best thing you can do to avoid getting bitten is to be aware -- look where you're running, stay away from the sides of the trail that might be shaded or rocky. I live in Los Angeles and have been running a lot of trails lately. • Do not drink any alcohol or take aspirin after a snakebite. If a snake does bite you, look out for the symptoms of a venomous bite. ... saved a local elderly woman from a venomous snake bite … None of these "treatments" help and most of them make things worse. A common sign of a bite from a venomous snake is the presence of two puncture wounds from the animal's fangs. Don't use a tourniquet, cut the bite, or suck out the venom if you're bitten by a venomous snake. Thanks a lot for your detailed response, great info. If you're running in bush regularly learn the proper snake bite treatment technique for your snakes, being a phone or a friend is basically it. What do you recommend doing when you're on a remote trail and you get bitten by a snake? Thanks, well worth the read. Mark the leading edge of tenderness/swelling on the skin and write the time alongside it. For clarity, the retracting arteries and snake bites rule is or is not a myth? Don't run with headphones on trails. 2. However by today's medical standards you've got a good chance if you seek medical attention immediately. Do not use a cold compress on the bite. Or drink that mess. Tourniquet ineffectiveness to reduce the severity of envenomating after Crotalus durissus snake bite in Belo Horizonte Gerais, Brazil.Toxicon 1998; 36:805-806. If there is no reception, then walking to an area with reception or walking to an area with other bikers, hikers or runners. You shouldn't use tourniquets with snake bites. A recent study showed that when civilians use tourniquets in a serious emergency, it increases the chances of survival almost 600%. Tourniquets and bleeding control took second seat behind more popular skills like CPR for a while. Pay attention to the color markings, the rattle (or lack thereof) and the shape of the head. When it comes to venomous/deadly creatures, I will always take advice from an Australian. Lower heart rate = slower spreading venom. Pit vipers are the most common venomous snakes in the United States and include all rattlesnakes. It will suck and the Antivenom is expensive as hell. Many snakes you encounter are going to be nonvenomous, and it would be very uncommon for a snake to actively seek you out to bite you. You shouldn't use tourniquets with snake bites. Source: Amaral CF, et al. 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